waterscroll (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
waterscroll) wrote2019-12-31 09:55 pm
waterscroll) wrote2019-12-31 09:55 pm
Entry tags:
SLBP No More the Frost ES, Mitsunari route
Ah, another opportunity to have my gut wrenched by a Mitsunari story, how fun.
The thing about Mitsunari is that so many of his problems are deeply personal and not really solvable in the context that he's in. He needs to come to terms with a) his gender b) his sexuality c) his rape trauma d) the reality that while he loves Hideyoshi (like love-love, not vassal-retainer love), and while Hideyoshi might stick his dick in him (and everyone else), the monkey is completely, utterly incapable of love, in the nicest, sweetest possible way. This ES takes on problem #4, and the question of how it is possible to have any kind of relationship with anyone while Hideyoshi keeps inserting himself into it and won't GO THE FUCK AWAY.
Because, really, Hideyoshi is like that. In Act 2, Hideyoshi pushes MC and Mitsunari together and makes a big deal out of shipping them, but then keeps MC as his cook while sending Mitsunari to a distant castle for most of the route. This has the effect of keeping them apart so they can only see each other once a month or so. He never makes moves on MC, but you've got to wonder what he's up to.
And oh boy this ES tells us. It starts with a drunken party. Mitsunari gets drunk and starts talking about Hideyoshi, because nothing makes him happier to talk about. MC notices that Mitsunari's eyes are 'forever on Lord Hideyoshi, even when I am so near him.' It makes her sad and feel a little left out. So of course Hideyoshi makes her feel better by saying he thinks MC is a great girl. Sakon and Otani agree, they'd both like to see what MC is like as a lover.
Oddly enough, you could imagine this working in the reincarnation ending, in which Sakon recognizes both Mitsunari and MC and helps them reunite, and then they decide to go looking for Otani and Hideyoshi. It's the 21st century, if they want to form a polyamorous household no one will stop them. (It seems like it could work, since all the people involved also ship other people in the group with each other. Otani loves Mitsunari but ships MC/Mitsunari, MC loves Mitsunari and ships Mitsunari/Hideyoshi and Mitsunari/Otani, Mitsunari ships MC/Otani...I think there are more examples too.) But in their own time it's kind of an open wound. Otani and Sakon and Hideyoshi all in their own ways have intense feelings for both MC and Mitsunari. At least Otani and Sakon have the decency to recognize that nothing can come of them.
Back to the ES. Soon enough MC is drunk and passes out, and then wakes up in Hideyoshi's arms, with a visible love bite.
The spoiler for the end, which I might as well discuss now, is that Otani eventually says that as the only sober person in the room he can attest that the love bite is from Mitsunari. And, well, sure Otani. First of all, Otani has a lot of baggage here. He loves Mitsunari and wants him to be happy and knows that the only reason he's not with Mitsunari is that he walked away and then when he came back Mitsunari was already with MC. He got to know MC and cares about her a lot, there's even a side story somewhere in which there's mutual attraction between them, but he's *very* invested in things working out between her and Mitsunari. So of course he's going to say something like this. Second of all, Mitsunari with all his rape triggers and sex traumas is pretty damned convinced that he'd never have bitten MC, let alone in front of other people, and honestly that tracks with what I know of him from his main story. He finds sex very difficult in the best of circumstances and needs a lot of safety, privacy and explicit consent. So I'm fairly convinced that it was Hideyoshi that bit her. But in any case she definitely woke up in Hideyoshi's arms, with him spooned around her and her kimono open, and the last-minute revelations don't change that.
But that's not the point. MC acts oddly unfazed by the thought that she might have fucked Hideyoshi and tells him that she doesn't hold it against him. Mitsunari doesn't hold it against MC either. Each of them is just hurt and worried about the others. Everyone is depressed, withdrawn, not really in touch with their emotions, and not talking to each other. MC wonders if there's a way to come back from this and can't think of one.
Because there isn't one, not really. This isn't just a misunderstanding, as much as Otani tries to turn it into one with his late (pseudo) revelation. This is a bandaid ripped off a gaping wound, revealing all the messy raw emotion underneath. Can they work through it by bonding over all being warriors? Otani tries to make that happen, but it's not enough. There really isn't a way for them to be completely honest with each other, but at least they can try to share a little more of their truth with each other. A little.
Mitsunari is so heartbreaking because he will never be able to speak the whole, full truth about who he is and who he loves. But maybe a little bit of truth. A tiny bit. He can admit to caring about MC, and having complicated feelings about Hideyoshi. MC can also admit to having complicated feelings, and to also being jealous of Mitsunari's relationship with Hideyoshi. It doesn't solve anything, but it brings them a little closer. For both of them sexuality and intimacy is fraught and vulnerable, and that means that it means something when they connect that way. They might share other things with Hideyoshi, but that kind of vulnerability and intimacy is something that he wouldn't even know how to share.
And in the end they go back to Hideyoshi, because they love him too, and they're not going to stay away.
Gah what a tangle of emotions.
It seems like this ES is AU to Mitsunari's act 2, since in his act 2 there really isn't a time after they become lovers when he and MC are living together with Hideyoshi like this. So maybe this is an alternate universe in which all the complicated emotions can have space to work themselves out. Maybe this is a step towards that. A small step. One can hope.
The thing about Mitsunari is that so many of his problems are deeply personal and not really solvable in the context that he's in. He needs to come to terms with a) his gender b) his sexuality c) his rape trauma d) the reality that while he loves Hideyoshi (like love-love, not vassal-retainer love), and while Hideyoshi might stick his dick in him (and everyone else), the monkey is completely, utterly incapable of love, in the nicest, sweetest possible way. This ES takes on problem #4, and the question of how it is possible to have any kind of relationship with anyone while Hideyoshi keeps inserting himself into it and won't GO THE FUCK AWAY.
Because, really, Hideyoshi is like that. In Act 2, Hideyoshi pushes MC and Mitsunari together and makes a big deal out of shipping them, but then keeps MC as his cook while sending Mitsunari to a distant castle for most of the route. This has the effect of keeping them apart so they can only see each other once a month or so. He never makes moves on MC, but you've got to wonder what he's up to.
And oh boy this ES tells us. It starts with a drunken party. Mitsunari gets drunk and starts talking about Hideyoshi, because nothing makes him happier to talk about. MC notices that Mitsunari's eyes are 'forever on Lord Hideyoshi, even when I am so near him.' It makes her sad and feel a little left out. So of course Hideyoshi makes her feel better by saying he thinks MC is a great girl. Sakon and Otani agree, they'd both like to see what MC is like as a lover.
Oddly enough, you could imagine this working in the reincarnation ending, in which Sakon recognizes both Mitsunari and MC and helps them reunite, and then they decide to go looking for Otani and Hideyoshi. It's the 21st century, if they want to form a polyamorous household no one will stop them. (It seems like it could work, since all the people involved also ship other people in the group with each other. Otani loves Mitsunari but ships MC/Mitsunari, MC loves Mitsunari and ships Mitsunari/Hideyoshi and Mitsunari/Otani, Mitsunari ships MC/Otani...I think there are more examples too.) But in their own time it's kind of an open wound. Otani and Sakon and Hideyoshi all in their own ways have intense feelings for both MC and Mitsunari. At least Otani and Sakon have the decency to recognize that nothing can come of them.
Back to the ES. Soon enough MC is drunk and passes out, and then wakes up in Hideyoshi's arms, with a visible love bite.
The spoiler for the end, which I might as well discuss now, is that Otani eventually says that as the only sober person in the room he can attest that the love bite is from Mitsunari. And, well, sure Otani. First of all, Otani has a lot of baggage here. He loves Mitsunari and wants him to be happy and knows that the only reason he's not with Mitsunari is that he walked away and then when he came back Mitsunari was already with MC. He got to know MC and cares about her a lot, there's even a side story somewhere in which there's mutual attraction between them, but he's *very* invested in things working out between her and Mitsunari. So of course he's going to say something like this. Second of all, Mitsunari with all his rape triggers and sex traumas is pretty damned convinced that he'd never have bitten MC, let alone in front of other people, and honestly that tracks with what I know of him from his main story. He finds sex very difficult in the best of circumstances and needs a lot of safety, privacy and explicit consent. So I'm fairly convinced that it was Hideyoshi that bit her. But in any case she definitely woke up in Hideyoshi's arms, with him spooned around her and her kimono open, and the last-minute revelations don't change that.
But that's not the point. MC acts oddly unfazed by the thought that she might have fucked Hideyoshi and tells him that she doesn't hold it against him. Mitsunari doesn't hold it against MC either. Each of them is just hurt and worried about the others. Everyone is depressed, withdrawn, not really in touch with their emotions, and not talking to each other. MC wonders if there's a way to come back from this and can't think of one.
Because there isn't one, not really. This isn't just a misunderstanding, as much as Otani tries to turn it into one with his late (pseudo) revelation. This is a bandaid ripped off a gaping wound, revealing all the messy raw emotion underneath. Can they work through it by bonding over all being warriors? Otani tries to make that happen, but it's not enough. There really isn't a way for them to be completely honest with each other, but at least they can try to share a little more of their truth with each other. A little.
Mitsunari is so heartbreaking because he will never be able to speak the whole, full truth about who he is and who he loves. But maybe a little bit of truth. A tiny bit. He can admit to caring about MC, and having complicated feelings about Hideyoshi. MC can also admit to having complicated feelings, and to also being jealous of Mitsunari's relationship with Hideyoshi. It doesn't solve anything, but it brings them a little closer. For both of them sexuality and intimacy is fraught and vulnerable, and that means that it means something when they connect that way. They might share other things with Hideyoshi, but that kind of vulnerability and intimacy is something that he wouldn't even know how to share.
And in the end they go back to Hideyoshi, because they love him too, and they're not going to stay away.
Gah what a tangle of emotions.
It seems like this ES is AU to Mitsunari's act 2, since in his act 2 there really isn't a time after they become lovers when he and MC are living together with Hideyoshi like this. So maybe this is an alternate universe in which all the complicated emotions can have space to work themselves out. Maybe this is a step towards that. A small step. One can hope.
no subject
Thank you for writing this up. I missed a LOT of the context. The story reads very differently without the main route.
The ending of "it was Mitsunari all along!" felt like a copout to me, and I like your interpretation better. And oof at Otani lying to Mitsunari.
This has the effect of keeping them apart so they can only see each other once a month or so. He never makes moves on MC, but you've got to wonder what he's up to.
One thing I noticed in Yukimura's ES last time (which I sadly never got a chance to finish) was that Hideyoshi seems very good at isolating people and convincing them they need him. This feels like a pattern.
Mitsunari is so heartbreaking because he will never be able to speak the whole, full truth about who he is and who he loves. But maybe a little bit of truth. A tiny bit.
This was heartbreaking to watch -- the way he distrusts his own reactions and his emotions, and also, the conviction he holds that he shouldn't be having them and that he should just be whatever it takes to not inconvenience people. And if he can't do that, then he'd better hide behind a wall of books.
no subject
And even if it was Mitsunari, MC still fell asleep with her kimono open in Hideyoshi's arms. Which is another thing that makes it hard to believe, does it sound plausible that Mitsunari acted all OOC because of jealousy but then somehow let Hideyoshi and his girlfriend fall asleep like that? But no one brings that up, even though that and not the love bite is what started all this mess. Which is why I'm not so bothered by Otani lying, it seems like he was mostly giving them something to hang their forgiveness of each other on rather than trying to tell them that nothing happened.
I think the love bite might have upset Mitsunari more than the semi-disrobed cuddling because it's something he might have felt like he can't do, he's so hesitant and conflicted about sex that something as forceful as a love bite might feel out of reach. So when he's able to give one to MC later he feels better, not even necessarily because the first one was from him but because it *could* have been, that he's able to do that with her if she likes it. Otani's lie, if it was that, frees Mitsunari to explore the possibility that he can be slightly more forceful sexually and still have it be loving and consensual.
Although, yeah, as you say, he's still got a ways to go:
the way he distrusts his own reactions and his emotions, and also, the conviction he holds that he shouldn't be having them and that he should just be whatever it takes to not inconvenience people.
Mitsunari really just wants to be kind to others, and yeah he distrusts himself so much. One thing I like about this ES is that there's real conflict and struggle but everyone - including Hideyoshi, in his way - is just trying to be good to everyone else.
One thing I noticed in Yukimura's ES last time (which I sadly never got a chance to finish) was that Hideyoshi seems very good at isolating people and convincing them they need him. This feels like a pattern.
I think you're right.
I'm sorry you missed the end of that ES! It was lovely. Hideyoshi told MC that she's a kind person, she needs to get away from all of these warlords and lead a quiet life. So she slapped him across the face and told him that he can shove his manipulations. Then Shingen's army appeared and Hideyoshi had to run away.
This game doesn't really let you cheer when bad guys are defeated, but damn I was cheering for that ending.
no subject
Which is why I'm not so bothered by Otani lying, it seems like he was mostly giving them something to hang their forgiveness of each other on rather than trying to tell them that nothing happened.
I can see that, and this is a lovely way of putting it.
One thing I like about this ES is that there's real conflict and struggle but everyone - including Hideyoshi, in his way - is just trying to be good to everyone else.
Yes! There's a lot of support and shipping going on that's lovely. And Hideyoshi really is trying and you can tell he wished nothing had happened (just because it Ruined Everything, not because he felt like he did anything wrong), he's just...Hideyoshi.
And I'm flashing back to Nobunaga act 1, which is really the opposite, where everyone tries to do the support and shipping to keep the peace and to serve Nobunaga.
In a way, Hideyoshi and Mitsunari seem to make an interesting pair -- they're both trying very hard to put on a mask and to behave in a certain way, albeit for different reasons.
Hideyoshi told MC that she's a kind person, she needs to get away from all of these warlords and lead a quiet life. So she slapped him across the face and told him that he can shove his manipulations.
THIS SOUNDS AMAZING. I am cheering just reading this summary.
no subject
https://archiveofourown.org/works/16364225
It seems like an excellent use of his talents.
I'm 3/4 though his ES and it's somewhere between fascinating and nauseating. All the literal sunshine and rainbows and flowers, while he's controlling and manipulating MC and also trying to isolate her. But I guess his MC is well suited to him, because she pushes back and yells at him when necessary and maintains friendships despite anything he says, and also because she loves him she can understand his constant manipulations as a kind of caring.
no subject
I'm partway through Ieyasu's right now. It's pretty much the mix of malice and neediness I signed up for. Also Ieyasu is really the World's Worst Boss and I don't know why anyone but MC is loyal to him.
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I'll get to Ieyasu next. I think Ieyasu's MC and Hideyoshi's MC have in common the ability to look at bad behavior from their dudes and see the caring behind it, although it's sort of opposite kinds of bad behavior.
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I'm intrigued. I really think he would thrive and be happy, especially if he ended up with someone powerful.
It definitely puts his line in Nobunaga's route about how great it is to be a concubine into perspective.
no subject
Although that particular picture is from an AU, I suppose it could also make sense as a backstory. We don't know what he did or how he survived from the time his village was destroyed when he was a child until he went into Nobunaga's service, so maybe he did work in a brothel. I've also seen it suggested that his position as Nobunaga's 'sandal-bearer' was a little euphemistic:
https://samurailoveballadhistory.tumblr.com/post/149122712835/japanese-version-because-hideyoshi-is
But yeah, it's possible that Hideyoshi is so excited about MC being Nobunaga's concubine because it worked out pretty well for him. I'd love to see them have *that* conversation.
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And yes! That would be such an amazing conversation. Hideyoshi in other routes is fascinating in general; he provides such a different perspective.
And him as the MC's mentor is just a wonderful idea.
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