some early thoughts about Guardian (but honestly more about how I'm feeling now)

[waterscroll]

I'm up to episode 10 and am delighted to find that there is plenty to think about, it's not just pretty boys pining and lusting prettily after each other, although it is very much that too. And tropey slash fanfic on screen, yes it is that too. But right now I'm also struck by the nature mysticism, which I understand was based in Chinese traditional folk religion in the original novel, and censored about as effectively as the m/m romance. Sure, space aliens, we'll call it that. But what it feels like, at least to me, at least right now, is an allegory about trying to love a terrifying world.

Warning: personal reactions to a canon that I am fairly new to and might be getting completely wrong. I've read some spoilers but not enough to be able to think through more of this show than what I've actually seen on-screen.



So here I am in April 2020 and I haven't left my apartment building for, welp, as of today, exactly a month. I live in a small apartment in a very dense urban area and out of my windows all I can see is other apartment buildings. I can't even see a single tree, or even a blade of grass. I've always been a city dweller, the three years I had to live in a rural area for work were the worst of my life, but I've always been able to go outside to get to parks whenever I wanted to. Well, until now.

People are still going for walks outside but the mayor yells at them to go home. Which makes sense. The city that I live in is having a particularly bad outbreak and I'm in a particularly crowded area. There are now police checkpoints to keep people from going to parks.

So I sit here in this apartment and the natural world is something that I miss and long for and is a kind of beauty that I can't access directly because it might kill me. And I wonder: maybe this is a more normal way of relating to nature, historically, than the way I'm used to. Maybe it's rare for humans to relate to nature the way I previously had, as a kind of public amenity. Right now there's a world out there that is beautiful and terrifying, the kind of terrifying that things are when they are actually dangerous. That's probably what the natural world has been to most people most of the time.

The world of Guardian is full of nature spirits thinly disguised as space aliens. Very thinly. Let's just call them nature spirits. Then there are the spirits of the underworld, very thinly disguised as...oh let's not even bother. The underworld spirits seem to inevitably - or almost inevitably - cause harm to humans that they interact with, even when they try not to. Even when they love them desperately. The only way that they can be kept from doing harm is to return them to the underworld. But because they are capable of loving humans, the cost of that sometimes feels very high.

One non-shippy scene that I found particularly powerful was the conversations between Shen Wei and the plant spirit. Mostly because of Shen Wei's highly expressive face, I found myself able to buy into the worldbuilding and feeling like what looked like a conversation between a professor and a nondescript bush was really a complicated political negotiation between a hell demon and a nature spirit. And, what if the world is actually like this? What if there are spirits everywhere, with emotional lives of their own, in everything that we call nature and the world?

And, what if some of them are motivated by (terrible, impossible) love?

As of where I am in episode 10, Zhao Yunlan is doing his best to seduce Shen Wei. He's working really hard on it, to the point where his co-workers are starting to talk. Shen Wei wants him desperately, pines for him beautifully, but since he actually knows what is going on has some understanding of what is at stake here and he's holding himself back.

I don't, yet, know what is at stake here, because canon is being fairly coy about telling me (and so is Shen Wei). I know what happened to the lesbians in episode 3 who could never touch and then finally did at great cost, because love between an underworld person and an above-ground person will always cause harm (but might be worth it). I know that Shen Wei, in his role as the Black Cloak Envoy, spends most of his time making sure that underground people get returned safely underground before they can do too much harm above ground, including to the people they love. But I also know that Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan were lovers at some time in the past, a very long time ago, and that this is important. As it feels like it should be. Since this is going to be a story about the Power of True Love, they have to find a way to be together again. But what will that mean for their universe?

I am in general very fond of human/deity pairings, but I've mainly worked with them (under a different name) in western canons drawing primarily on western religions. I am delighted to encounter something similar but working from a completely different religious tradition. I'm very happy to have found this show and at this point in canon I'm feeling like I am well on the way to getting extremely invested in it, and also like the emotional roller-coaster is just starting.

Comments

[scytale]

I am really glad you're enjoying this, and I like your meta! We're almost in the same place in Guardian now (I think I hit episode 13?).

Right now there's a world out there that is beautiful and terrifying, the kind of terrifying that things are when they are actually dangerous. That's probably what the natural world has been to most people most of the time.


Yes, I can see that.

It's funny because your take is making it much easier for me to relate to Shen Wei right now -- pining for true loves for millennia is really pretty, but it's not something I can really relate to. But right now, I am pining hard for nature, and while I do get t see some of it, it's just not enough. And yes, there is a lot of delight, but it's always mixed with a sense of danger and wistfulness and sadness. And some of it, I think, is pining for a sense of connectedness and belonging and a regaining of what feels like a lost world, which I think is true for Shen Wei too.

Your point about nature's dangers reminds me of an anime I partially saw years ago -- Mushishi, and now I actually want to finish that show. What I remember of Mushishi is the mix of beauty and wonder, and how the supernatural and inexplicable was intertwined with nature -- and now I think I'm thinking of it in terms of what it means to live a life with nature. And how much of that awareness of nature, historically, has been a negotiation to survive.

The world of Guardian is full of nature spirits thinly disguised as space aliens. Very thinly. Let's just call them nature spirits. Then there are the spirits of the underworld, very thinly disguised as...oh let's not even bother.

Haaa. I admit I enjoy the half-hearted cheesy sci-fi veneer that makes no sense and which they don't even try to make even a bit sensical.

The underworld spirits seem to inevitably - or almost inevitably - cause harm to humans that they interact with, even when they try not to. Even when they love them desperately.

You're right. I always read Guardian as pointing to the idea that the love would be worth the cost, because I was so focused on the costs to the individual people...but now, I wonder. It's interesting because in the stories there's a mix of people harming themselves, harming the people they've loved, and sometimes harming other people entirely (I think the face-stealing girl?).


One non-shippy scene that I found particularly powerful was the conversations between Shen Wei and the plant spirit.

I loved the plant spirit so much -- there was something that felt so alien about her. She seemed very wise and distant...but at the same time, they showed the constraints of how she and her people were trying to survive, and how their powers had costs (in that they can't fight, but they can hide anywhere). Which is relevant to Shen Wei too, I think.

Since this is going to be a story about the Power of True Love, they have to find a way to be together again. But what will that mean for their universe?

This is a good question.

[waterscroll]

It's funny, I found Shen Wei instantly relatable and when I realized that Zhao Yunlan was supposed to be the audience identification character I was a little taken aback. The degree of his longing (and internal conflicts, and identity and role confusion) are a little over the top, but they are still things I can relate to.

But yes, the feeling of fraught, dangerous and complicated longing between humans and the natural world does feel very of the moment.

And some of it, I think, is pining for a sense of connectedness and belonging and a regaining of what feels like a lost world, which I think is true for Shen Wei too.

Yes! In the flashbacks it feels like he doesn't just miss Zhao Yunlan but who they both were at the time when they loved each other way back when, and that he'll never get back because time doesn't work that way, not even for deities. And maybe that's part of why he holds back, that even if he loves Zhao Yunlan now it won't be the same as when he loved him then, because they are now both different people.

I admit I enjoy the half-hearted cheesy sci-fi veneer that makes no sense and which they don't even try to make even a bit sensical.

The nice thing about it for me is that it gives me permission to play with it. I normally have some hesitations writing fanfic about deities from real-world religions, it feels rude and appropriative. But a vaguely scifi/fantasy setting that draws on religious imagery and thinking, that I can work with.

I always read Guardian as pointing to the idea that the love would be worth the cost, because I was so focused on the costs to the individual people...but now, I wonder. It's interesting because in the stories there's a mix of people harming themselves, harming the people they've loved, and sometimes harming other people entirely

And if the love between Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan is this epic love of centuries...does the destructive power of a Haxing/Dixing love increase or decrease with its intensity? Are they going to, like, actually explode the world with the power of their pining? What kind of harm will inevitably need to come from it? But I don't think this is a story about an inevitable tragedy, so I think they are actually going to need to rearrange the world and how it works so that their love isn't inevitably tragic. And I am so here for that.

She seemed very wise and distant...but at the same time, they showed the constraints of how she and her people were trying to survive, and how their powers had costs (in that they can't fight, but they can hide anywhere). Which is relevant to Shen Wei too, I think.

For all the craziness of the sci-fi veneer, this is what makes the worldbuilding make sense for me - everything has costs and the costs are proportionate to what is gained. Which again feels very of the moment, this sense that success is not inevitable and that every choice involves risks and losses.

But yes, I like her a lot. For a show that is really about a slash otp, it does a passably decent job at making its female characters interesting and powerful.

[scytale]

It's funny, I found Shen Wei instantly relatable and when I realized that Zhao Yunlan was supposed to be the audience identification character I was a little taken aback.

Heh, I thought newbie (whose name I am forgetting) was supposed to the audience identification character. I certainly sympathized with his "wow, those people are the worst coworkers ever" reaction. xD


The nice thing about it for me is that it gives me permission to play with it. I normally have some hesitations writing fanfic about deities from real-world religions, it feels rude and appropriative.

Ah, I'm glad it works then!

And huh, I actually didn't realize how heavily original Guardian derived from real-world religion, apart from the Aliens That Are Totally Not Animal and Demons and Nature Spirits, We Swear.

But I don't think this is a story about an inevitable tragedy, so I think they are actually going to need to rearrange the world and how it works so that their love isn't inevitably tragic. And I am so here for that.


Yeah, I don't think the tragedy is going to be inevitable either. And it would feel dissatisfying to me if it turned out to be.

But I think they're going to both need to stop keeping secrets and to step beyond the roles they play, which I don't think either of them are good at (yet).

For a show that is really about a slash otp, it does a passably decent job at making its female characters interesting and powerful.

Yes. <3

[waterscroll]

I actually didn't realize how heavily original Guardian derived from real-world religion, apart from the Aliens That Are Totally Not Animal and Demons and Nature Spirits, We Swear.

I don't really know either, but even if it's just that the thin veneer of scifi makes me feel a bit better about mucking around with it.

But apparently in the original novel Yunlan is a reincarnated God who slowly comes back into his powers:
https://orcsofcolour.dreamwidth.org/8261.html
(warning: many spoilers for both book and show)

But I think they're going to both need to stop keeping secrets and to step beyond the roles they play, which I don't think either of them are good at (yet).

Yeah if I weren't reading spoilers I'd be worried at this point that we're going to get forty episodes of pining and UST because they are both so bad at being honest about who they are and what they want. I'm looking forward to watching them get past that.

[scytale]

I vaguely skimmed the spoilers post without spoiling myself too much (and surprisingly this worked!), and wow, that looks fascinating. Definitely going back to it later.

love between an underworld person and an above-ground person will always cause harm (but might be worth it). I know that Shen Wei, in his role as the Black Cloak Envoy, spends most of his time making sure that underground people get returned safely underground before they can do too much harm above ground, including to the people they love

Thinking about this a bit more and why it feels like it's not an inevitable tragedy to me -- I think a lot of it is because the problems seem to be caused by the separation. So we see a lot of Dixing folks trying to escape to the surface and causing harm, and also cases like the Dixing kid who gets abandoned for having powers and ends up coming back for revenge. And the girl in the second episode would have benefited from having someone around to teach her to control her powers.

And I think the show is too optimistic to just go, "WELL, GUESS WE'LL ALL HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT NOW".

[waterscroll]

I think a lot of it is because the problems seem to be caused by the separation

I like this as a possible direction for things to go - the tragedy of Haxing/Dixing relationships is caused by the separation between worlds, a separation that both protagonists are in some way actively involved in maintaining. The terrible consequences of these relationships can make the separation feel like a moral good but it's actually causing more harm than it is stopping, because it is the effects of the separation itself that is causing these relationships to be harmful.

That really would be an optimistic direction for the show to go, and provide a clear path forward.

[scytale]

the tragedy of Haxing/Dixing relationships is caused by the separation between worlds, a separation that both protagonists are in some way actively involved in maintaining.

I wonder if the current thing with the Hanga and Ge Lan/Sang Zan is supposed to be foreshadowing in some way (particularly episode 11, being deliberately cagey since I'm not sure if you're avoiding episode specific impressions and spoilers!)

I'm also very curious what you'll think of the end of Sang Zan and Ge Lan arc.

[waterscroll]

I just watched the end of episode 11 so please tell me what you are thinking! Some first flaily thoughts: The Ge Lan/Sang Zan story is fascinating in how they create their own tragedy through their actions and their all consuming love that leads to so many deaths. And Zhao Yunlan and Shen Wei are both, yep, your actions completely make sense and I'd also destroy the world for killing someone I love. And I just want to hug everyone and try to explain to them that even when you are hurting and full of emotions you can still make choices, because I am all in favor of people loving each other (especially these particular people) but I hope they can do it in a way that isn't destructive.

[scytale]

I'm wondering if part of the reason Shen Wei is the Black-Cloaked Envoy enforcing the separation is because the Dixing people killed/betrayed/did something else bad to Zhao Yunlan! And, assuming Shen Wei created the separation as well -- in that case, the reason for the separation between the Dixing people and the Haixing people becomes a lot more murky.

(I also realized I confused episode 10 and episode 11, oops! I could have totally told you this yesterday. :P)

Some muddled reasons I think this:

1. All the camera work and the expressions during the "oh yeah, I'd be super pissed if the people I dedicated myself to destroyed my love too" scene made me think that Shen Wei had actually gone through this himself.

When Zhao Yunlan is talking about ambituous and resourceful men and what they would do in a situation like this, the camera cuts to Shen Wei's MANY COMPLICATED MASKED EXPRESSIONS. And there's a bit before that when Zhao Yunlan starts talking about how he understands people like Sang Zan, and Shen Wei gives him a brief quick look that's...also complicated.

Zhao Yunlan seems to be talking in hypotheticals, wherbased on his understanding of people like Sang Zan, but Shen Wei talks with more certainty, and enough conviction that it surprises Zhao Yunlan.

Taken from the YT subs:

Zhao Yunlan: If the person I loved is destroyed by those people, ruined by the system that I established, I may hate them more than the former patriarch.

Shen Wei: That's right. Even if they're cut into myriad pieces...

[Zhao Yunlan gives him a WTF look.]

The hatred is also hard to dissolve. (I think a better translation is, "It'd still be hard to dissolve the hatred.")

[Focus on Zhao Yunlan's WTF expression, which intensifies.]

My Chinese language skills are really rusty and I'm definitely not immersed in the media culture (there's a reason I watch things with subs!), so take this with a grain of salt, but I think the translation may fail to capture just how *extreme* Shen Wei is being. qian dao wan gua is a term for lingchi, which is a torture/execution method. And I've heard it used idiomatically as the very limit, like "even if [qian dao wan gua], I won't leave you!" in the climatic romance scene. I read the "it'd be hard to forgive them" as essentially, "NO FORGIVENESS, EVER" as a result.

So Shen Wei escalates Zhao Yunlan's hypothetical by...a lot. And he sounds so full of conviction as he says it.

2. There's that line where Shen Wei talks to Zhao Yunlan and says, "I never thought you would sympathize with a person of Dixing." And his voice kind of breaks a bit (*fannishly flails*). Which makes me wonder if past!Zhao Yunlan came across as a lot more unsympathetic to the Dixing people, and Shen Wei is trying to carry out his wishes. And if maybe Shen Wei isn't happy with the separation entirely either, but he just doesn't want to move on because Zhao Yunlan isn't there to tell him to.

3. It seems like both the Hanga and Dixing people are societies that do bad things and eventually get stopped. But the guilt-by-association with which the new!Hanga treat Ge Lan isn't great and ends up contributing to more suffering. Maybe we're supposed to read that this is happening with the Dixing people, too? (Most of the characters we've seen in the war weren't even alive in the war 10,000 years ago...)

4. In ep 11, Purple-hair explicitly accuses Shen Wei of betraying the Dixing. For power, which is clearly wrong, but I wonder if Shen Wei himself would see himself as forsaking the interests of the Dixing people.

But I'm totally just reading foreshadowing into everything. :P

The Ge Lan/Sang Zan story is fascinating in how they create their own tragedy through their actions and their all consuming love that leads to so many deaths.

Yeah! I think one other thing I find fascinating is that...he betrays her trust and kills her dad and she can still forgive him, even if she seems conflicted about it. o.o And there's a lot of power imbalance in their relationship all the way. I am sucked into their very angsty drama.

It's also interesting to me how they almost run away at the end. And I think they could have been happy if they'd succeeded.

Also, wtf at those elders. "I'm going to brutally murder the one true love of this ruthless and brilliant warrior who has already dedicated his life to vengeance once! And then I'm going to give him power over me afterwards! :D :D :D" . How did they think it was going to turn out?

I wonder if in the novel, they didn't give him power back and he had to claw his way to the top again. And then the drama cut that out for time or simplicity.

[waterscroll]

I am loving your analysis here...I don't have time to respond to it properly and won't for a few days, but damn Shen Wei is really Not OK. Highly attractive pining is one thing, this is something else that I don't even know how to understand. I appreciate being filled in on the nuances of the Chinese, since I don't speak it at all.

But yeah, I'm going to guess that whatever happened Back When is more than a long-lost love story. Who is Shen Wei so determined not to forgive??? (I'm wondering if it's himself.)

I had a lot of problems with the Ge Lan/Sang Zan story as a romance...as you say, he kills and displaces her family and she turns to him because she has no one else. There's a lot of intense emotion between them, but it read to me like a lot of it was his guilt and her dependence that they were both deciding to call love because it made them sort of more able to live with everything that happened. That Shen Wei saw a relatable love story there made me pretty damned worried for him. I wonder if he has any normal context for understanding what a relationship between people who love each other is supposed to look like, aside from whatever (possibly highly messed up) thing he had going with Zhao Yunlan thousands of years ago.

Anyway, more in a few days.

[waterscroll]

Shen Wei is the Black-Cloaked Envoy enforcing the separation is because the Dixing people killed/betrayed/did something else bad to Zhao Yunlan

That is so interesting and sounds plausible. It would be nicely tragic in the best/worst way - his own reactions to heartbreak are what force the heartbreak to continue.

Which makes me wonder if past!Zhao Yunlan came across as a lot more unsympathetic to the Dixing people, and Shen Wei is trying to carry out his wishes. And if maybe Shen Wei isn't happy with the separation entirely either, but he just doesn't want to move on because Zhao Yunlan isn't there to tell him to.

And that makes it even better/worse, that they created their tragedy together.

In the brief flashbacks they seem happy together, but now I'm wondering if they were perhaps mistreating each other in some important way, possibly unintentionally. Since as we see from Ge Lan's story, in this universe that can happen with people you love.

Purple-hair explicitly accuses Shen Wei of betraying the Dixing.

Yes! I noticed that too. And maybe it wasn't *for* power, but he got a lot of power in the process, which can look the same to an outsider. I hope eventually we'll get to see Dixing and find out what people think of him there, I'm very curious. Because what you're suggesting here is that lots of Dixing people want to live peacefully with Haxing people, and even love them, and Shen Wei is stopping that because of his own guilt and self-hate.

Shen Wei reminds me somewhat of Sanan - perfectly polite, secretly terrifyingly powerful, and either too good or too evil for this world or both. Something I loved about Sanan's character arc is that it really could go either way, he could be anything from the worst villain of the entire game to a misunderstood self-sacrificing saint, and either way he does exactly the same things up to the route split. That's how I feel about Shen Wei right now, because of the genre I assume he's not going to be too terrible, but the way he's written he *could* be and it would look exactly the same.

[scytale]

now I'm wondering if they were perhaps mistreating each other in some important way, possibly unintentionally. Since as we see from Ge Lan's story, in this universe that can happen with people you love.

Yes! And with Sang Zan and Ge Lan, some of it is wanting different things and being on different sides (which applies to them too)... and maybe loving other things, too. Ge Lan loved her family and Sang Zan loved his sister.

I hope eventually we'll get to see Dixing and find out what people think of him there, I'm very curious.

I think we have to! I think that's such an important piece of the worldbuilding, and we're getting very little exposure to it.

I really want Zhao Yunlan to go down there some time. It'd be a nice swap of roles.

Because what you're suggesting here is that lots of Dixing people want to live peacefully with Haxing people, and even love them, and Shen Wei is stopping that because of his own guilt and self-hate.

Thinking about this again, I'm not so sure. Shen Wei seems to mostly leave the Dixing people alone unless they actually use their powers to harm a Haixing person (and he refers to the mirror girl's crime of wanting to see the sunlight as relatively minor and forgivable, never mind that she stole another person's life for years).

And that seems fair, except for the cases that are clearly self-defense.

I also wonder if there's some...myth thing going on. If there's some kind of geas or...something.

But one thing that I've been thinking of is Zhao Yunlan's line about how the dignity of a man is tied to keeping his loved ones safe (and I think by extension, living a peaceful life). And that feels like his core principle -- with how loyal he is to his agency and how he's working to protect the city. And I don't see Shen Wei having the same feelings there toward the Dixing people.

Shen Wei reminds me somewhat of Sanan - perfectly polite, secretly terrifyingly powerful, and either too good or too evil for this world or both.

Oh, yes, I can see this. Something about the mix of conviction and the Feelings buried beneath the perfectly polite facade, too -- and just based on the common route, I think Sanan does the same thing where he tries to deal with those feelings alone?

[scytale]

Who is Shen Wei so determined not to forgive??? (I'm wondering if it's himself.)

That sounds extremely plausible to me.

I had a lot of problems with the Ge Lan/Sang Zan story as a romance...as you say, he kills and displaces her family and she turns to him because she has no one else. There's a lot of intense emotion between them, but it read to me like a lot of it was his guilt and her dependence that they were both deciding to call love because it made them sort of more able to live with everything that happened

Oh yeah, I like your way of putting it. It's interesting to me because in the present, they have a similar relationship of dependence, just flipped around -- she's the one who knows about the modern world and being a ghost, and he knows literally no one else in this time. I don't think they ever learned to relate to each other as equals -- it seems like they're just playing out the same pattern again.

But maybe it...kind of works for them?

It seems like that mix of guilt and dependence has come up several times in different ways (the grandparent and her granddaughter, maybe the face stealing girl and her kinda boyfriend?). Which makes me wonder what the show is trying to say about love.

[waterscroll]

I think I'll believe that it works for them when I see them happy together. But they are trying really really hard to make it work for them, so maybe it will?

It's an interesting kind of love conquers all - love can even overcome the most horrible things we can do to each other. It's part of the premise of *that conversation* that the worst and most unforgivable thing you can do to someone is hurt, or worse kill, someone that they care about. Presumably Ge Lan loved her father and brother? If love can overcome even that...

And I guess also, love can overcome the awfulness of what it sprang from. Even if you could excavate all the emotions and find at bottom guilt and dependence, by choosing to call what they have love and to live based on that choice they can build a strong relationship.

I am very curious to see how it goes. I did like how Zhao Yunlan told Sang Zan that because he mistreated one of his team his punishment is to work without pay. It gave some recognition to the awful that happened but in an oddly sweet way.

[scytale]

It's an interesting kind of love conquers all - love can even overcome the most horrible things we can do to each other.

Oooh, this is such a fascinating statement and such a fascinating theme. o.o I don't think I've seen anything quite like it before -- the closest I can think of is the "hot dysfunctional ship", but even that isn't quite right.

I can see that reflected in some of the side stories, too -- with the mirror girl, for instance.

I don't quite know how I feel about it, especially with Even if you could excavate all the emotions and find at bottom guilt and dependence, by choosing to call what they have love and to live based on that choice they can build a strong relationship.

Presumably Ge Lan loved her father and brother? If love can overcome even that...

I think she mentioned it explicitly, that they were her beloved kin. She had a line about how she couldn't tell if her life with Sang Zan was a dream or a nightmare as a result.

And she still bows to the ancestors at the village where the Hanga used to be.

I did like how Zhao Yunlan told Sang Zan that because he mistreated one of his team his punishment is to work without pay. It gave some recognition to the awful that happened but in an oddly sweet way.

Ha! I read that as a joke about Zhao Yunlan trying to get free labor, but you're right, it is sweet and fitting, how he recognizes the awful while still acknowledging that Ge Lan wants Sang Zan around and giving Sang Zan a way to fit in. And it does also help their apparently limited budget, especially since Sang Zan isn't going to be doing any *real* work. (And Ge Lan is totally going to do less work as a result!)

[solo]

Hello, I'm gatecrashing your meta because you linked it at sid_guardian. :)

One non-shippy scene that I found particularly powerful was the conversations between Shen Wei and the plant spirit.

I'm in the fortunate position of having nature right outside my house, so pardon me for being flippant: what I love about that conversation is how the shrub says 'It's getting too dangerous here, Ima leave.' And then picturing the university gardening team finding a big gap where a forsythia used to be.

I know what happened to the lesbians in episode 3 who could never touch and then finally did at great cost, because love between an underworld person and an above-ground person will always cause harm (but might be worth it).

I don't want to spoil you but that's not exactly the theme here. And knowledge of the novel canon can be a hindrance rather than a help. Don't try to pre-empt too much on the basis of that. The show is very, very different from the novel.

I don't, yet, know what is at stake here, because canon is being fairly coy about telling me (and so is Shen Wei).

Shen Wei is coy about telling anyone anything, partly for ~reasons~ but partly also because he's never experienced actually working with an equal. It drives Zhao Yunlan crazy, the way it drives Shen Wei crazy when Zhao Yunlan randomly fondles the Holy Tools.

BTW I did a big cleanup of the subs so if you are happy to work with downloads rather than streaming, go here: https://sid-guardian.dreamwidth.org/253109.html

[waterscroll]

And then picturing the university gardening team finding a big gap where a forsythia used to be.

Haha I hadn't thought of that but you are absolutely right and it is pretty funny.

Shen Wei is coy about telling anyone anything, partly for ~reasons~ but partly also because he's never experienced actually working with an equal. It drives Zhao Yunlan crazy,

It drives me crazy too! But it is also oddly endearing.

I did a big cleanup of the subs

Oh! That is great to know! Thank you!