SLBP Act 2 Nobunaga to chapter 6
Dec. 30th, 2019 02:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
waterscroll...again posting my notes.
Continuing to be convinced that playing this route after Mitsuhide's was a poor life choice, since it's hard for me to read this route as anything but Mitsuhide's tragic arc. And yes, his own route is also his tragedy, but there at least he has a little bit of agency. Not much, but at least enough to draw the line of where Nobunaga has to be stopped. Here Nobunaga sucks all the agency out of everyone around him. Also, playing this route after Mitsuhide's gives me very little patience for MC's Nobunaga-apologetics.
As soon as there is an uprising at Hogan-ji, MC is very willing to conclude that Kennyo has just been playing at peace all along. Which, ok, maybe he was. (Or maybe he wasn't, and the uprising isn't his fault, which is a possibility that a random retainer raises but that MC doesn't consider since Nobunaga doesn't.)
She then concludes:
"It has taken me far too long to realize it now, I know...but I finally understand that the men of Hogan-ji are not ones to associate with. Knowing that, I also realize that the blaze at Mount Hiei, while extreme, was set because it had to be."
MC, remember how you risked your life to save people from Mount Hiei and almost died with them? Of course you don't, because that was in a different route where you made better choices.
Meanwhile Nobunaga is depressed because the fight with Shingen wasn't really the last, and now Kennyo isn't so easy to defeat. And isn't going to be, because lots of people support him, partly because lots of people think Nobunaga is terrible. While in Mitsuhide's route MC sees the people's support for Kennyo as evidence that Kennyo was giving them something that they needed, here she just sees it as evidence that Kennyo will be hard to defeat. She overhears various random people talking about how they need the faith that Kennyo gives them *even more* now that Nobunaga is causing all these wars and killing all these people, but it doesn't register.
On the other hand it's not clear how much this route is supposed to be consistent with Mitsuhide's route. In Mitsuhide's route he's very much part of the destruction of Hogan-ji, to his great regret. Here he walks away from the Oda before it happens. Hogan-ji is still bad, Nobunaga kills everyone trying to run away, but it's not explicitly stated that he killed civilians, which is what caused Mitsuhide to break in his own route. (Although if Nobunaga killed everyone fleeing maybe it's still implied that he did.)
Speaking of Hogan-ji, Kennyo has an incredible death scene, which I need to record for later overthinking:
Kennyo:...
He is just sitting on the floor, his eyes closed serenely.
Nobunaga: I begrudgingly praise you for not running from this place with your tail between your legs.
Kennyo: Even if I ran, there would be nothing waiting for me when I stopped.
Kennyo opens his eyes now, answering quietly, his voice full of peace and acceptance.
Kennyo: I am sure that the Buddha has led me to facing you here.
Nobunaga: You believe in neither the Gods nor the Buddha, why speak of them now?
Kennyo: Ha...you really are fool, aren't you? You have yet to realize anything, is that it? Why did you seek Divine rule? You have power, prosperity and fame...and now that it has come to you, what has it given in return?
Nobunaga glares at Kennyo while he makes the sacred gestures.
Nobunaga: I have no need to explain anything to you.
Kennyo: Attachments, desires...these things are an endless cycle in this world. As long as they still exist, man will never be saved. However, man cannot exist without their desires. In other words...there is no salvation for us. That is all the more reason that we must create the Buddha.
Nobunaga: Get to the point.
Kennyo: How many people have died for the sake of your foolish grab at divinity? How much sorrow have you brought upon us? If both wars and desire are nothing but foolish things created by this world...I will destroy the one who brought them into being.
Nobunaga: You honestly believe that false teachings can save my people?
Kennyo: If that is what you are asking, then I would like to ask you this. Has there been, or will there ever be, a time when your desires - or the wars driven by them - will save anyone at all?
(I'll call that Kennyo 1, Nobunaga 0, and I'd like a Kennyo route now please.)
So, I am finding a lot to think about in this route. Unfortunately I'm not enjoying romancing Nobunaga very much. I might be in the wrong place for it. I had the same feeling the first time I did the Hijikata route from Hakuouki, he's another Bad Decisions Bear and I was just mad at him through the entire route. But then the second time I was in a different place and overidentified with him and cried a lot. So maybe I'll need to do Nobunaga's route again in a few months.
Continuing to be convinced that playing this route after Mitsuhide's was a poor life choice, since it's hard for me to read this route as anything but Mitsuhide's tragic arc. And yes, his own route is also his tragedy, but there at least he has a little bit of agency. Not much, but at least enough to draw the line of where Nobunaga has to be stopped. Here Nobunaga sucks all the agency out of everyone around him. Also, playing this route after Mitsuhide's gives me very little patience for MC's Nobunaga-apologetics.
As soon as there is an uprising at Hogan-ji, MC is very willing to conclude that Kennyo has just been playing at peace all along. Which, ok, maybe he was. (Or maybe he wasn't, and the uprising isn't his fault, which is a possibility that a random retainer raises but that MC doesn't consider since Nobunaga doesn't.)
She then concludes:
"It has taken me far too long to realize it now, I know...but I finally understand that the men of Hogan-ji are not ones to associate with. Knowing that, I also realize that the blaze at Mount Hiei, while extreme, was set because it had to be."
MC, remember how you risked your life to save people from Mount Hiei and almost died with them? Of course you don't, because that was in a different route where you made better choices.
Meanwhile Nobunaga is depressed because the fight with Shingen wasn't really the last, and now Kennyo isn't so easy to defeat. And isn't going to be, because lots of people support him, partly because lots of people think Nobunaga is terrible. While in Mitsuhide's route MC sees the people's support for Kennyo as evidence that Kennyo was giving them something that they needed, here she just sees it as evidence that Kennyo will be hard to defeat. She overhears various random people talking about how they need the faith that Kennyo gives them *even more* now that Nobunaga is causing all these wars and killing all these people, but it doesn't register.
On the other hand it's not clear how much this route is supposed to be consistent with Mitsuhide's route. In Mitsuhide's route he's very much part of the destruction of Hogan-ji, to his great regret. Here he walks away from the Oda before it happens. Hogan-ji is still bad, Nobunaga kills everyone trying to run away, but it's not explicitly stated that he killed civilians, which is what caused Mitsuhide to break in his own route. (Although if Nobunaga killed everyone fleeing maybe it's still implied that he did.)
Speaking of Hogan-ji, Kennyo has an incredible death scene, which I need to record for later overthinking:
Kennyo:...
He is just sitting on the floor, his eyes closed serenely.
Nobunaga: I begrudgingly praise you for not running from this place with your tail between your legs.
Kennyo: Even if I ran, there would be nothing waiting for me when I stopped.
Kennyo opens his eyes now, answering quietly, his voice full of peace and acceptance.
Kennyo: I am sure that the Buddha has led me to facing you here.
Nobunaga: You believe in neither the Gods nor the Buddha, why speak of them now?
Kennyo: Ha...you really are fool, aren't you? You have yet to realize anything, is that it? Why did you seek Divine rule? You have power, prosperity and fame...and now that it has come to you, what has it given in return?
Nobunaga glares at Kennyo while he makes the sacred gestures.
Nobunaga: I have no need to explain anything to you.
Kennyo: Attachments, desires...these things are an endless cycle in this world. As long as they still exist, man will never be saved. However, man cannot exist without their desires. In other words...there is no salvation for us. That is all the more reason that we must create the Buddha.
Nobunaga: Get to the point.
Kennyo: How many people have died for the sake of your foolish grab at divinity? How much sorrow have you brought upon us? If both wars and desire are nothing but foolish things created by this world...I will destroy the one who brought them into being.
Nobunaga: You honestly believe that false teachings can save my people?
Kennyo: If that is what you are asking, then I would like to ask you this. Has there been, or will there ever be, a time when your desires - or the wars driven by them - will save anyone at all?
(I'll call that Kennyo 1, Nobunaga 0, and I'd like a Kennyo route now please.)
So, I am finding a lot to think about in this route. Unfortunately I'm not enjoying romancing Nobunaga very much. I might be in the wrong place for it. I had the same feeling the first time I did the Hijikata route from Hakuouki, he's another Bad Decisions Bear and I was just mad at him through the entire route. But then the second time I was in a different place and overidentified with him and cried a lot. So maybe I'll need to do Nobunaga's route again in a few months.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-05 10:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-05 10:38 pm (UTC)I'm intrigued by the idea of IkeSen!MC with Kennyo - she's so materialistic and modern (and doesn't seem very spiritually-inclined).
no subject
Date: 2020-01-05 11:20 pm (UTC)In the story Kennyo seems to have some sort of connection with the MC but they aren't in a romantic relationship. They spend the night in an isolated hut sheltering from a storm that they're both caught in. Kennyo can tell that MC likes him but he doesn't want to pull her into his life of revenge. They talk and he tells her this, and she says she cares for him anyway. She tells him that she used to want him to give up his revenge but now she understands where he's coming from, and that she just wants him to live until she can see him again.
It's very sweet. IkeSen Kennyo, like SLBP Nobunaga in a way, sees himself as someone who has given up his humanity and turned himself into a demon in service of a greater goal. IkeSen is a less grimdark canon so despite that Kennyo is able to treat MC kindly and respectfully. I liked the little story a lot, althougn $9 was an outrageous price for it. But I'll look forward to the Kennyo route.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-07 04:20 am (UTC)This does sound sweet and interesting (and so so expensive O_o)! They sound like they have a great dynamic together.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-07 02:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:28 am (UTC)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18sMtHQL3S4
and also last year's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xlG9hJNa8Q
Also, apparently the Kennyo route came out on the Japanese app in December. So we'll get it in a year or so, I guess. I am very impatient.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 05:03 am (UTC)Thanks for the links!
I watched this year's, and wow, I really like Kennyo. He is complicated and conflicted and melodramatic and I like his mix of faith and poetry on seasons and birds and ruthlessness. And he has such a gentle smile!
I like the enemies-pretending-not-to-be-attracted-to-each-other thing he and MC have going on, and how solemn the MC is with him. She seems to be actively trying to understand him.
(It actually reminds me a lot of the bit of Masumune's route I played -- she does a lot of work trying to understand his perspective, and their principles clash.)
I'm intrigued by how her modernity will come into play. Her modernity doesn't seem as incompatible with his Buddhism and his former values as I thought they would be.
...I'm also amused by how sweet and light this is, compared to even the lightest SLBP stuff. Everyone is so nice and no one has tried to murder the MC yet!
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 05:17 am (UTC)I like them a lot
and I really hope she sews him something that he can carry with him as a reminder of their time together and what's good in life. Maybe something to do with the seasons or the sky or the light?no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 03:02 pm (UTC)I also really like this MC and how thoughtful and reflective she is.
no subject
Date: 2020-01-20 04:49 pm (UTC)I eagerly await more updates about Kennyo in IkeSen.